RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
Up2nogood, your argument about Chevy DRW against the Ford 1 ton makes sense except for your application. You own a 1999 1 ton Ford which has a 9900 GVW I believe like a Chevy 3500 SRW. Only thing is that your Ford is a lot heavier than the Chevy. If your back wheels are 5600# and your front wheels probably 4500 or heavier you are over your GVW. I owned a 2001 F-250 and it had the 8800# GVW. What a joke for carrying ability. The GVWs for the 250 and 350 are way to light for those years. If you are towing a 3400 Montana with your 350 then you are definately over your pin weight.
I can have this debate as long as you want it .You weight police can read the door tags all you want. I am willing to listen to reason, not door tags.If that is all you have then no need to reply to me. Save it for the guys that come on here and ask can I tow this with this, thats where you guys are in your element, guoting door tags.
I have always thought these types of discussions are pointless. I'm towing with the truck and trailer in sig and have no "control issues" that others mention. It cracks me up to see someone post about how over your weights when they have no idea how heavy the poster really is.
Amen ,but at times makes for good entertainment.I have no idea what some are talking about, have asked many times, all I get is weight tag guotes. Like I said I will listen to reason,someones experience, someones mishaps etc. Mostly what I hear is scare tactics with nothing to back it up, but I will keep listening until I hear something.
RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
Up2nogood, your argument about Chevy DRW against the Ford 1 ton makes sense except for your application. You own a 1999 1 ton Ford which has a 9900 GVW I believe like a Chevy 3500 SRW. Only thing is that your Ford is a lot heavier than the Chevy. If your back wheels are 5600# and your front wheels probably 4500 or heavier you are over your GVW. I owned a 2001 F-250 and it had the 8800# GVW. What a joke for carrying ability. The GVWs for the 250 and 350 are way to light for those years. If you are towing a 3400 Montana with your 350 then you are definately over your pin weight.
I can have this debate as long as you want it .You weight police can read the door tags all you want. I am willing to listen to reason, not door tags.If that is all you have then no need to reply to me. Save it for the guys that come on here and ask can I tow this with this, thats where you guys are in your element, guoting door tags.
RE: Oregon..support for pulling trailer behind 5th wheel
You may be trying to enlist support for the idea, but so far the two Oregonians that responded are against the idea. Does that give you any hint that this may not be what Oregon RVers are interested in? Besides, I believe that now California also requires an endorsement to tow doubles. Are you going to insist on that part of the California law too? I am rarely for government regulations that infringe on my rights, however in this case and seeing how bad of drivers many RVers are already, adding another 10-20-30 feet to the back of a truck/trailer combination IMHO is simply asking for more problems. I think you would get more support for a measure to require all drivers of RV's to have an endorsement to their standard automobile drivers license. This could only be issued after they proved beyond a reasonable doubt that they could safely handle the RV.
Donn, Where do you come up with the idea of how bad RV drivers are compared to any other driver on the road ?? Please explain that analogy. Rv drivers as a whole are a heck of alot better drivers than then average American in there SUV's IMO. Yes I see a few rigs towing too fast,but probably the speed limit, but IMO 75 is too fast for towing Rv's. I would think you would be more worried about the non RV rolling past you at 80-90 and losing control.
RE: Do you lubericate your 5th wheel hitch
I believe the article you were reading is in this month's Trailer Life, the damage was to a Super Glide. The company said that the hitch pretty much welded it's self in one possition due to the way tubes not beeing properly lubricated. When the way tubes are not lubed properly , that can cause the metal to heat and virtually weld together....Joe
Need to ask , does this put another nail in the coffin of those expensive auto sliders ?? Sounds like there is a fair amount of attention reguired on them ?? , just wondering . I have to ask another guestion since they were brought up. Do these auto sliders slide back and forth everytime you turn a corner ??, thus the heating problem ???
Back to the guestion .I have a reese 18k slider I lube the grease zerk thats on it, and use the lube plate. No grease on the slide, slides very well without, and I don't use it very often. Grease or no grease it is not going to weld itself together
RE: Rear end sagging to much
Moosetrek,
Thanks for the congrats. It took me 8.5 years(off and on) but finally after many doubts and thoughts of giving up I am done. It feels great.
Everyone else, thanks for your opinions:B and ideas.
Donn, there are many things I would like to say to you but refuse to stoop to your level and the sad things is you are probably double my age. Go figure. If you do know it all, tell me what my pen weight is. I can tell you before you research, which you won't ,that it is roughly 800 lbs. under your original estimate. Remember what they say about assuming....well you proved that analogy correct here. Thanks!
Now some simple math, minus your research. My pin weight is 2405 empty. I add springs that takes off roughly 1K lbs. That leaves me more or less at 1400k lbs. give or take. You mean to tell me thats to much for the truck. Once again had you read and COMPREHENDED all of my posts you would have read that the truck sags to much for "my liking." though it could take more-not much more. I have pulled heavier loads as a former ranch hand in deep south Texas and the truck was fine. It's simply the pin weight I am trying to fix. Once again, please re-read. It helps and prevents you from making yourself look the way you do, in which you are probably a great guy once you get out from behind the keyboard. Have a great day/night!
Donn ,this is what many have been trying to tell you for awhile, you are over the top on many of your replies. I will repeat and I hope you can learn from this, scare tactics and insults do not work. If you have had a bad experience with a overloaded truck maybe sharing it might open some eyes. You seem to think there are few 5vers out there that SRW can handle safely, and you are mistaken.
RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
With that weight....get a duelly! You will understand why when you are going down the interstate at 65 and a semi passes you doing 80.
Most folks believe that the most important asset a truck can posses is pulling ability. Nope. Handling and stopping top the list.
I "only" tow a max of 15,000 lbs, probably much less, and would not think about towing with anything less than a duelly. I've never worried about getting the rig weighed because I know I'm cautiously under the max for the truck. I believe in comfort in knowing the truck will handle anything thrown at it.
Many folks will argue with me though!
Lostdog
07 C3500 D/A with 6 wheels
08 Titanium 30E35SA with discs
18K Reese with a P3 Controller
Well that explains it you are driving a Chevy, can't blame you for wanting a dually.That was not an insult a 1 ton chev SRW does not stack up to a 1 ton ford SRW.I could go on and on about going across Wyoming with 40-50 MPH cross winds it would rock the 5ver ( 38' ) but didn't bother the handling of the truck ( Ford Superduty 1 ton SRW )I could go on and on about I80 having more semi's on it than cars getting pasted by many coming back to utah from Indiana towing the 5ver 1700 miles, not sure what you mean when they pass you ??? Was I supossed to lose control??? I could go on and on about hitting some frost heaves @ 65 mph on I80 in Wyoming that I thought was going to tear the fiver off of the truck handled fine. I could go on and on about going down Parleys Canyon in Utah ( some will know what parleys is like ) about a month ago @ 60 mph and coming around one of the last curves to find the traffic at a stop. The truck and 5ver stopped and handled very well and under control as some will say it was not the tail wagging the dog. I could go on and on and on, but I hope you get my point not all 5vers need a dually, yes there comes a time when it does.
RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
Maybe we can all get together some day, sit around a campfire, check out each others SRW and DRW TV's, AND your HDH and have a laugh or three. Herc,you take it easy out there buddy....oh, you got an awesome combo there, have you checked to make sure you have enough truck for that 5er:W:R............now you know I was kidding:B.Thats a great idea, then I can see how the other half lives with those gorgeous rigs of yoursCan I go? Can I go??? :)
Yea! You can go
RE: Towing with 2008 Ford F250 Super Duty diesel
I'm really surprised that the new Fords w/ the 6.4 PSD weighs 8,800 pounds for a short box. By '03 comes in at 7700.
My 99 with the 7.3 with fifth wheel hitch, full tank, etc 7880 SB CC
4 x 4
RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
Maybe we can all get together some day, sit around a campfire, check out each others SRW and DRW TV's, AND your HDH and have a laugh or three. Herc,you take it easy out there buddy....oh, you got an awesome combo there, have you checked to make sure you have enough truck for that 5er:W:R............now you know I was kidding:B.
Thats a great idea, then I can see how the other half lives with those gorgeous rigs of yours
RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
I'm just the opposite, I can't wait to be able to head into the mid west to west. Utah, Wyoming, Montana...I'm really looking forward to the day that the DW and myself will be able to head out that way, Hey,
maybe we can meet halfway somewhere...take it easy and have a good evening.
It would be my pleasure.
RE: Rear end sagging to much
Lots of arguments on this subject. First off if the "dry" or what ever you want to call it is 12000, then the trailers GVWR will be close to 16000. That indicates to me that your pin weight is in the range of 3000-3200 pounds. Sagging rear end? Does that remotely make you wonder if you might just not have enough truck for the load? This on a 12 year old 3/4 ton truck that probably had in its heyday a 8800 pound GVWR rating according to Ford. Think maybe it might be time to consider a newer truck with more load carrying capacity?
Did you "remotely" read the first page. You give a smart answer and you get a smart reply. Maybe you should go re-read. I am not keeping a 12 yr old truck by choice. If money weren't an issue, I would have a dually 450/4500 tomorrow. I just graduated from college. If you graduated from college or if not, I am sure you remember just starting out. Times are tough just starting out and this economy doesn't help my situation. I am doing the best I can. As I stated had you read, I live in the 5ver so it doesn't get moved often and when it does, it's not far. This is a temporary "fix" until I can buy a new truck. What is your interest rate 0.5%? Great I'll start looking at trucks tomorrow:R
Oh and yes I did read the OP and you made no comments about your financial status. You simply asked about adding band aids to your existing truck. which i responded to!
Donn, you must be doing selective reading, read his second post on page one, Give the guy a break as he said he is doing the best he can. He is not going cross country here. There are alot worse setups than his running our highways.
RE: Rear end sagging to much
Lots of arguments on this subject. First off if the "dry" or what ever you want to call it is 12000, then the trailers GVWR will be close to 16000. That indicates to me that your pin weight is in the range of 3000-3200 pounds. Sagging rear end? Does that remotely make you wonder if you might just not have enough truck for the load? This on a 12 year old 3/4 ton truck that probably had in its heyday a 8800 pound GVWR rating according to Ford. Think maybe it might be time to consider a newer truck with more load carrying capacity?
There is no 3000-3200 pin weight 2008 montana fifth wheels, I ought to know I have one of the heaviest the 3400RL with four slides. Loaded pin weight 2420, and thats including a Onan 5500LP generator in the front compartment.( 296 lbs ) This was weighted two weeks ago on certified scales . My listed GVWR is 15500, 2420 is not 20-25% of GVWR it is just shy of 16%. I do not know why you and others keep insisting on using 20-25% across the board to calculate pin weight it does not apply to all, very poor way when a truck hangs in the balance whether its weight rating is okay or not.
RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
up2nogood. I still don't think you read all of my post. Just now, I'm seeing that you have a 7.3 Super Duty, which, if I'm not mistaken, the 1 ton SRW has the same GVWR rating as my 1 ton DRW...If I said anything about your set up, whether you like it or need it, I apologize. If you would have read my earlier post, again, you would have seen that I used the 1 ton SRW Ford Super Duty as the "exception to the rule" with 1 ton SRW trucks..it has, if I'm not mistaken, the same GVWR as MY 1 ton DRW truck. What I've been saying since the very beginning, because I DO know this, that a 1 ton SRW CHEVY/GMC will be over GVWR if trying to tow a 5er with a GVW of 15,000-16,000#. Just my opionion. I will also say that yes, your in the "mountains" in Utah..well, our "little old mountains" around here only get up to a little over 6,000 feet, but when you pull a 9 mile plus long mountian with a grade of 7-9%, that TOO will tax that TV that's towing one of those heavy 5er's, when you add numerous curves to that scenario, then you really know "that it's back there".
Absoluely no "heartburn" here that I'm aware of. Opinions are asked for and offered on these forums. We can take or leave them. I'll do more research in the future and try to be more insightful when responding to a post. Hey, I'll just play in these little itty bitty hills and hope I can pick up some useful information for "next time":B
Being "empty nesters" and in our late 50's, it's just been recently that I was able to purchase said 5er. I bought a brand new 06' in late 07 that had set for over a year plus...thus, probably the ONLY reason I could afford an HR Presidential Suite.....they needed to move it. My good fortune and a great deal and probably the only way I could have afforded it.:)
Yes, I am guilty we have a tendency to read what we want and not what we should, but my whole issue was with the a 38' being too heavy for a SRW. Absolutely there are 38' 5ver's I would have no business hooked to Ford Superduty or not. You seem to be one that agrees with the weight I have and the truck to tow it, many or most will disagree, and that I have no problem with. There is alot of factors in weight rating ,and a whole lot more opinions on what these diesel trucks can do or cannot do according to the weight tags, and not first hand experience such as yourself or I in towing large 5vers. My truck tows that 38' 12,740 lbs very nicely, handles well, brakes very well, if It didn't I wouldn't do it, I still will not tell everybody they should tow large 5ver's with a SRW,and if I implied that then I retract it.Even if I am under my weight ratings, thats the limit IMO for any SRW
No apology needed, all this is done with hopefully good intentions.
At 4500 feet here it does not take long to get to 6000.Hope to see those hills of yours in the near future, hopefully in a couple years full timing.Been as far as Indiana to pick up the 5ver, past Wyoming it got pretty flat, didn't think anything could be that flat for so far.Got good mileage till I hit the mountains on the way home,Wyoming has some pretty good grades to go over.
RE: Which Fifth Wheel to buy?
Find the floor plan that "fits" your lifestyle and that you like. That will be the 5er for you! Good luck.
Sound advice there. Having two kids under the age of three, we really looked a kid friendly floor plans and finally decided on our Cougar. We looked at some Montanas as well, but the floorplans weren't what we were looking for.
If you are looking to sleep more than four look elsewhere all the Montanas sleep four, unless you want to sleep on the floor. My 2005 Montana 2980RL had the jacknive sofa and two adults was a tight fit ( but then maybe thats okay )
RE: Rear end sagging to much
Hey guys I have a 96 F-250 4x4 4 door short bed Diesel. I have a 08 Montana 5ver that weighs just under 12K lbs empty. When pulling, the rear end of the truck sags way to much for my liking. The truck could take some more weight but not much more....
What is the GVWR of your truck? I'm going to guess 8600#. What is the pin weight of the 5er? The general rule of thumb would be 12K X 25%, so about 3,000# :E Have you weighed the 5er to verify the pin weight?
I don't want to sound like an alarmist, but I'm guessing you're probably over the weight ratings for your truck. Yes, you could add air bags to level the truck and it would probably work. However, that will not change the fact that your truck will be over weight.
I have no reservations loading a vehicle right up to it's rated capacity. Actually, just a shade over (maybe a couple hundred pounds) probably isn't a big deal since the engineers give some fudge factor for ratings. But to me, it sounds like you're probably WAY over your truck's rated capacity and that's where things get dicey.
KJ
There is not a 2008 Montana fifth wheel out there with a 3000 lb pin weight. I know I have the 2008 Montana 3400RL LOADED pin weight is 2420 with an Onan 5500LP Generator at 296 lbs. The 3400 is probably the heaviest of the montana fifth wheels with its four slides excluding maybe the Big Sky. I would think you would want to rethink your reply
The answer is Firestone airbags, but I would still get the onboard compressor been both ways. You might want to check your rear leafs.If that truck has been towing heavy at its age they may be starting to fatigue. If they are put the 1 ton leaf pack in it or rearch your old ones and add a leaf you will be surprised what it will do, along with the air bags. What Montana to you have ???
RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
Nope, not going to argue, just a year or so ago, there weren't that many, thus, when I went heavier, looking at the 5er I wanted to get,
(HR PRES 37 RLQ), I KNEW I'd needed a 1 ton dually, IF I was going to stay with GM/Chevy, because I would have been WELL over the GVWR of the 1 ton SRW with sig. 5er. Guess I should have waited and picked another brand of 5er, I could have probably saved money on the 5er AND only needed a 1 ton SRW...No, unlike some in here, if I'm wrong, I'll be man enough to admit it...not looking for flaming, just knew what I knew from experience, not hear say or "Billy Buck" had a buddy and he said..., I will admit I still have a problem believing the weights that the manufacturer puts on these 5er's, especially, when at the bottom of their spec sheets in little script they say the weights may not be actual, it may weigh more. Had never seen a three axle that a GM 1 ton SRW could tow without going over, but I learn something new everyday...my bad, to anyone I offended, I apologize. It wasn't out of malice, to me, it was just trying to be safe...my bad.
Certainally no need to apologize, I was not offended, I knew different than what I was reading. My only concern, heartburn, whatever you want to call it was this weight issue on larger 5vers. I have no idea what others weigh, only mine and the only one that matters.If you are okay with what you are doing so am I, and I certainally would not tell you different. I agree safe is the key word here. I feel I am as safe as anyone out there towing what I do.
On the lighter side if I had your money I too would be towing a Holiday Rambler, and yes with a dually. My last TT was a HR 26' best RV I ever owned and probably ever will.My oldest son bought it from me when I went to a fifth wheel, so it is still in the family its a 1990 and still in great shape.My wife still says that she is not living to the standards she was accustomed to with the HR.
RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
up2nogood I think you are good to go.
Thanks,I appreciate your comment,Yes welcome to the forum. I am not asking for myself.I have done the numbers . I am okay with what I am doing. I posted the numbers for the skeptics on these bigger 5vers being towed with a 1 ton SRW . There is a large number of people on here getting mislead by these replies. Yes there is a time when the weight needs a DRW. You can tow a 2008 Montana 3400RL safely in the 13k range, and 2500 pin weight with a 1 ton Superduty. Would I load it up to its 15500 GVWR no .I don't think the truck nor trailer will handle that weight,and certainally not with E tires on the 5ver.
RE: Automatic Awning Question
I have a 2008 Montana 3400RL. It has an automatic awning on it. It is great when there is NO wind but if there is any breeze above 9 to 10 mph the entire awning frame starts "hoping" or bouncing up and down so I roll it up immediately. I look at other peoples trailers who have manual awnings and theirs don't even think about bouncing up and down. It seems as if they are able to tie them down better or anchor them into the ground. With my automatic awning it seems as if the frame is not sturdy enough to put any tension on it i.e. anchoring it into the ground. So any of you folks have any experience with this? Do you tie down or restrain you awning or do you even have problems in wind this light? What can I do?
Thanks for you're time!
Jon
I also have the 2008 3400RL I have yet to tie mine down, but have experienced it bouncing up and down in a slight wind .It made me nervous at first when it was lifing up a few inches, but I saw no ill effects from it so I let it bounce. My thinking if the wind increases too much its pretty quick getting it up. I never leave the 5ver with it down for any lenght of time a wind can always come up guickly.
RE: Dually vs. Single Rear Wheel
My comment was about the fact that someon had said there are "PLENTY" of 38'+ 5ers out there that a 1 ton SRW could handle. I did not say there were none, just believe there are not very many. The dry weight of a 5er and the dry hitch weight of a 5er are both jokes, especially if you read the "fine print" stating thus from the manufacturer themselves You know what your towing and you know what your towing with, you should know if it's safe for you and your family
if you feel good about all that, then anything I or anyone else say's shouldn't bother you. I apologize if I offended you, I was the same way when I got blasted in here for towing a 37' 5er with a GVWR of 14,500# with a 2500HD/D/A. I really got upset and got a little mad about it...bottom line, some of those people were right. When I moved up to a larger TV, I saw a world of difference in the way a heavier 5er was pulled. Your conditions may not be the same as mine. I tow in the mountains of WV, TN, VA, NC & SC...long steep curvy roads. Guess if I lived in "flatlands", it would have worked better. When I actually weighed the trailer & truck, I found out that my "so called" 2000# pinweight was actually closer to 2900#..wow, was I surprised. So, if your that light on your weights...congrats...I wasn't and I did something about it.
ON EDIT: up2nogood, if you had READ MY post, you would have noticed that I was "mostly" talking about GMC/Chevy's, not Ford's, and if you would have read back a little more, you might have noticed that I said I understand that some 1 ton SRW FORD'S have the same capacity as a 1 ton DRW Chevy.. thought I'd bring that to your attention.
I have to start on the light side here you tow in the hills I tow in the MOUNTAINS here in the west. I didn't get blasted here nor would I care .I am okay with what I am doing and not looking for any congratulations that I am under my weight ratings.. What I do care about is misleading info. when I know different I stated what my actual weights were to prove a point that not all 38' 5vers were as heavy as some of you think. I need to ask the guestion here while I am at it here, where is all this heartburn coming from on pin weight between 2000-2500 lbs. on a SRW ??? I will use my numbers because they are actual . My back axle weighs 3220 loaded, hitch ,full tank etc.one person in truck normally two.pin weight 2420 loaded excluding fridge food and clothes. Total weight sitting on the rear axle and tires of truck is 5640 lets add 500 for whatever. puts me at 6140 tops in MY case,and not all that would go to pin weight.Total weight of 5ver loaded 12740 lets add the 500 for a total of 13240. Tire ratings on TV 3640 for a total of 7280. I am 1140 lbs under my tire ratings. TV 1999 Ford Superduty 7.3 1 ton CC SB. There it is. Where is the heartburn with this set up ?? and if there is any please explain. I would think any comments to this guestion would be from past experience or mishaps with said weight and TV
